Corey Wilks, PsyD - Memento Mori, Psychology, Self-Actualization

Welcome to the God XP spiritual fitness podcast. I'm Anthony Polanco. Our guest today is Corey Wilks. He's a licensed clinical psychologist. He's a Certified Professional coach, and he's also a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu purple belt. Korean I met a month ago, and write of passage, which is a cohort based course for online writing. I found Korea to be inspirational, insightful in his writing, and just an all around really interesting person. He helps founders entrepreneurs creatives to achieve their full potential to shape their lives and businesses for success. By all means, follow Cory online at on twitter at Cory Wilkes society. Subscribe to his newsletter at Cory Wilkes society.com enjoy our conversation about self actualization, psychology death in Brazilian jujitsu. Alright, welcome to the God XP spiritual fitness podcast today we've got Mr. Corey Wilks, the indomitable he's a licensed clinical psychologist, Certified Professional health coach, learn many other things. He's also an online writer at Corey Wilkes id.com. He's Brazilian jujitsu purple belt, and fellow rite of passage alumni. Corey, how you doing? Pretty good man about yourself. Great, you doing great. I'm really glad that we got to do this dude, like just just for full discussion. I just met Cory. About a month or so ago, we bought a rite of passage, which is a cohort based course for online writers and just finished How do you feel? Good man, I was able to crank out some really good articles, I think, yeah, I was reading them. I thought it was really interesting. And some of the things I wanted to talk about today was how you write a lot about like death, and facing facing death in your life, and how, how that's a transformative thing for for people. And that's something that that has guided my life, like I've been in a few car accidents, I've had some psychedelic experiences involving death. And a lot of my writing has to do with death as well, just just because of how much it's changed my paradigm in life and has been the vehicle for my change. So So I thought that was really interesting. Like, the, the I noticed that there's something about something that links people who I wrote about this, like, everyone who is comfortable talking about death, has seen it in one way or another. And it's noticeable in their life. You know, some people don't like talking about it. And you can tell the people who are really comfortable with it, you know that it's really changed them. Yeah, I think one of the things with so for people who haven't read my writing, I don't talk about death from the perspective of like grief and bereavement. I talk about it from memento mori, right. So I think the reason people like you and me and a lot of entrepreneurs gravitate toward things like that, is a lot of us gravitate towards stoicism, right? Because it's just a very practical philosophical approach, right? I came across memento mori, which just means remember death, remember, you will die. I came across it through Ryan holidays books. Right? So I really like the idea of using mortality as a motivator to live fully right? Because most people either take their time for granted or they pursue just the wrong shit. Oh, by the customer here. Yeah. And they just they chase the wrong things. And then they end up you know, being 60 7080 and they look back on their life full of regrets. Right. So when I first came across this concept, I was like, shit, man, like, I am totally taking so much of my life for granted. Or like I'm not spending time with the people I love. I'm not being present when I'm with them. But also, I'm procrastinating because I'm acting like I'm going to live forever. Or like oh, I'll do that later. I'll you know, I'll start my website next year, I'll do this, you know, later, later, later, well, eventually later, is no longer an option. Right? So I thought I had a pretty good handle over memento mori, but it was very theoretical still. And then this last year, I actually almost died. So then it became way more than theoretical, right? So long story short, and I've written about this too, but through jujitsu, I got a really bad bruise. Right. So I do a lot of butterfly guard and at the time, I was doing a lot of Shin on Shin stuff. And when you do that, Shin bruises are super common. I had one that I thought had was like a hairline fracture. It hurts so bad. It was in a spot that I had gotten bruises tons of other time. So I didn't think you think about it. See it a jujitsu guy. I'm like, fuck it. I'll just if it's still bad in a week, maybe then I'll go to the doctor. Right? Right. I'll try to walk it off. And it got way worse. And my skin you know, like started turning purple and red. Just weird colors. Yeah, so I went to the doctor, and they're like, Oh, you have a hematoma. And it may have become infected and become an abscess. Take these meds, if it gets worse, come back. It got way worse. So by the time I got back to the hospital, they immediately prepped me for surgery, because they're like, Look, we're waiting on test results. But we don't know if the infection has gotten into your bloodstream or your buns. Well, if it has, you can die or at the very least lose a limb as fuck, you know, this is during COVID shit too, right? So I was in the ER, waiting for a hospital bed for like 12 or 18 hours like it was insane because all the beds were full. So they finally you know, get me in and you know, I have to have surgery and things to remove all of the infected tissue and things. And thankfully, you know, I was good. I just have like gnarly scar now. But when I was in the hospital, the night before surgery, it was just me, right? Because again, COVID visitation restrictions like you can't have anybody room with you. There's a super fucked up. So I'm just sitting there alone in this in this hospital bed with just like the beeping of the machine and like the occasional nurse coming in to draw blood to keep me company. So I remember laying in bed not knowing if I was gonna die or not. And I thought to myself, What if this was the last week? alive for me? Right? And you know, you hear about these thought exercises like, oh, if you only had a week to live or a month to live like what would you do? That's bullshit. Because if you have time to plan it out, you can go out with a bang, you can party you can skydive just to the shit, that isn't a helpful thought experiment. For me, it was like, Am I satisfied with how I've already lived? So if I can't do anything more, let me look back. Am I satisfied with how I spent my time and thankfully that week, I was I spent time writing online, you know, coaching people spending time with my loved ones doing jujitsu? I was satisfied with what could have been my last week of life. So ever since then, I'm like, Look, any week could be my last so I don't fuck with shit. That isn't fulfilling. I like I have turned down, you know, therapy jobs for close to $100,000 because I'm like, Look, I no longer want to do that. I don't want to work 4050 hours doing you know dealing with bureaucracy and red tape and insurance bullshit. I want to coach I want to write I want to teach. If it isn't those things that doesn't give me freedom, and that isn't truly and deeply fulfilling for me. I just don't fuck with it anymore. Yeah, that's one of the craziest jujitsu injury stories. Yeah, dude, like further like, I don't fuck with Shell shit anymore. Like, I know it affects my game, but I'm like, Look, man, like, I can't understand that dude. I can't imagine but I know that. That that's a familiar bruise that Shin bruise Yeah, that's a brutal it's a brutal feeling, man. So that's amazing. That's amazing. So so there's a lot to unpack there. Because you know, most people this this is this is what I try to get across in my writing all the time. It's like how do you how do you give people that urgency? You know, you can't you can't really think yourself into it. You can try It's fun. It's kind of fun to be like okay, if someone walked in and put a gun to your head right now, you know, and said What did you like the fight club? Like What Did you wish you would have done? That's a that's that's kind of a fun thought experiment. But like until you actually are facing deaths, and you have to have that feeling of like, holy shit, like, the door is right there. And I'm getting pushed towards the door and I don't want to go through it. That that that sense of verge existential urgency is what people I think, what what what ties people who have had these life changing experiences together. What do you think like, is the the most effective method that you found for helping people have this like realization in their life or have this mortal confrontation willingly. So some of the people I work with have already had their own experiences or they're at least familiar with, you know, momentum orient things. So that's usually helpful. Others they haven't, but they have felt that poll of like, I know I could do more with my life some of the people I've worked with have chased money to the exclusion of meaning, right? So like money isn't bad, there's nothing wrong with money, but when you pursue money that is unfulfilling and makes you miserable that becomes an issue right? So a lot of the people that end up you know, either hiring me for coaching or you know we talk or whatever it's usually really came in I'm trying to figure out what is worth my time to do like what do I dedicate my life to at this point. So either they're trying to break out of the nine to five and trying to build you know, a business that is purpose driven for them, or they've already built other businesses that didn't align with the person they wanted to be. So now they're like Look, I don't have clarity on what the fuck I'm even aiming at. I need help developing that clarity. So that's usually what I do. Occasionally I'll get somebody who hasn't come across momentum more than like I explain it in different terms. One of the other stories that I share in this part of the reason why I got into writing and coaching and things is again back to memento mori out a couple friends. So one of them he he was an attorney for years he did your traditional job route, but he was really passionate about writing he really wanted to be an author. So over the last couple years he had quit practicing law and started writing a book he suck all his you know life savings into it and he and his partner were super excited for this book. And when they went to the doctor and he got diagnosed with stage four pancreatic cancer Two weeks later he was dead right so you know as a writer that's terrifying right like to die with a half completed manuscript and then shortly like around that same time I had another friend Same deal he went the traditional route was you know did some other you know, jobs that she didn't really care about, finally went back to get a creative writing degree, also to write a book memoir, something like that. Halfway through the program fucking died, right, like freak freak accident type health issue. And then around the same time I had a third friend she retired early to enjoy her health because she didn't you know, she liked her job, but it didn't really fulfill her. So she's like, I'm going to retire so I can enjoy my health while still have it. within the year, she was diagnosed with like metastatic breast cancer, and it's like untreatable so really all they can do is like palliative care. And I got so pissed off because you know that's three friends back to back to back who pushed off pursuing a fulfilling life because they were afraid right afraid of failure afraid of ridicule, afraid of uncertainty almost to the ship. So that was that was what really pushed me over the edge to put myself out there to write online and to share you know, my experience and expertise in psychology to try to help as many people as I can because you know, it's just too many people die regretting not having done more with their lives. There's even like a like a fucking Cornell study that said like 76% of people die with the same regret and it was essentially that they didn't live up to like their ideal self or, you know, basically they, they, they lived in mediocrity and then on their deathbed they're like fuck I really wish I would have taken more chances. Right so like that's where I come in is like, I'm trying to help you avoid that on down the line by now regardless of how old you are identifying what the fuck makes you tick on a fundamental level and how can you build your life around that so that you can you know reach your potential pursue self actualization? Where the fuck you want to call it just get more out of life than what most people are willing to do? Mm hmm yeah. That's amazing. So like where did this like I know that you lost your your homies and the fact that men that's a that's such a an existential shock and this the same thing you know, the same reason I write you know, it's I saw myself die and was like holy fucking read my book like out you know, all the things I've been doing for the last five or six years are like my bucket list after the fact like, I feel like this is my second life already. And if I know that any day I could go so I'm like if I if I just put something on the page and get it out if I die tomorrow, this You know, so that's a good enough reason but like At what point did you start having compassion enough for the world that you were like I'm gonna my meaning is to help the world rather than like just to self serve because Was that something that you had since you were a kid? Or was it was it these experiences halfway through that really changed that for you? So a couple things so I grew up poor suck in like rural Appalachia, right so like yeah like you know I have the doctorate now and like also the shit but like I grew up on like food stamps and like welfare and shit. Okay, so I was surrounded by people who didn't even you know consider like entrepreneurship as an option right? Like I remember you know, like my dad he got basically he got hurt doing like manual labor shit and he was like looks on whatever you do use your brain not your body right so like even though my parents you know didn't have fancy jobs or fancy education shit they're like look, you are going to you are going to invest in your mind and leverage your intelligence and your ability to learn to do something rather than what it was going to be but like they hit like you know, so most of people where I'm from they their parents didn't you know empower them in that direction right like and you hear horror stories about people were like they want to do more with their families stop them say no people from you know out here we don't we don't go that way. Like we go over here we work in this specific industry. You know, we work in the mines, or we do this we do that whatever. My feeling was the opposite. They're like, Look, we don't know how to help you. But we know that we're going to support you in a way that we can. So from an from an early age, I knew that that was how I was going to make a living somehow are super vague, though. And then I remember when I went to college, I started off as like Business Management major some shit hated it, because I was like, I want to help people. And it was all about like numbers and you know, bullshit that I was like, I'm not a math guy. I don't want to fuck with all the numbers. So then I was like, Oh, well, you know, I like nutrition. So I tried out dietetics then I realized I don't give a fuck how much think is in asparagus. I just don't so you know, I bounced around to a couple different you know, majors for the first couple years. And then finally, like I had been in therapy as a kid was like, I went through like some rough shit like domestic violence also shit. So like, I've been in therapy as a kid fucking hated it. And had taken psychology classes in high school and college fucking hated. I was like, This is some shrink bullshit, like, you know, I don't I don't fuck with this. And then I had a it was a required like, adult or child development course. And it was as a psychology class. And I remember this, his name is Dr. kealan. Hinton I was shouting out anytime I can. I was expecting some like old ass white dude that like when he moves, you know, fucking chalk dust just poops out from his armpits or something. And in walks this young black dude from Memphis, right? dressed real casual. And this motherfucker talk like he was from Memphis. He wasn't professorial. Right? He came in with like, you know, fucking tattoo sleeves and like, also shit like, and he was super real. And I was like, I'm like this class, like already, like I'm sold. And the passion he had for psychology. And the way that he explained it helped me understand the power of psychology has to unlock people's potential. Right? So I had his class and like, That day, I was like, I changed my major psychology. And now I'm a psychologist, right? Like I, I tell him all times, like, dude, you are the reason I'm a psychologist, like all this shit that I've built, started with you. So I saw people as puzzles in psychology helped empower you to solve that puzzle. So then over the course of you know, undergrad, and grad school and shit, I went into clinical psychology, so didn't therapy and things. And it's been sort of a slow evolution. So I mostly worked in integrated primary care, which just means I worked at like a medical clinic. So if you went in and asked your, you know, your physician, you know, Hey, Doc, I'm depressed, I'm anxious. I'm addicted to heroin. You know, I'm really struggling with obesity, whatever, they would refer you to me. And I really liked doing therapy. But there were a couple issues with it. So you know, I have all this training to like help people overcome obstacles and get the most out of life. But with therapy therapy is inherently a pathology model, meaning, we don't define wellness. Like we don't we, we don't tell you what wellness looks like, we define wellness as the absence of illness, which is super fucked up. Riley, we don't say, you know, like, you're happy. We say you no longer meet diagnostic criteria for major depressive disorder single episode miles. Right? Like, it's super fucked up. So we never studied what thriving looks like whenever studied, you know, the discipline of positive psychology, we never looked at that we only ever studied sick people, which I did. That's what clinical psychology is about. But it's like, you're trying to help people be better, but you never defined what better is. Right? Like you're, you're leading people to a land you've never seen. Right? Yeah. Like that's, that's, that's therapy in a nutshell for a lot of people. So, I enjoyed helping people overcome, you know, panic attacks, and and, you know, deal with depression and, you know, get into recovery, you know, sobriety from addiction, like that was super fulfilling. For me. The issue was, at least in America, the way insurance companies work, because I worked in rural Appalachia. So the majority people I saw were on Medicaid, they couldn't afford shit out of pocket. Okay, literally, we had people who like, if they had a $5 copay, they couldn't afford it. Okay, like that is how poor and underserved some of the people I worked with work. And the way insurance works, is they pay for certain diagnoses for a certain period of time. So if you don't have the right diagnosis, right, so there, there are some diagnoses that are pretty much just like a vague category of like, you know, depression Not Otherwise Specified or unspecified. And, you know, adjustment disorder, like random shit that is just super vague. Sometimes they don't like those or they only pay for them for a certain amount of time. So let's say you come to me for depression, okay? Once we get you decently well off, you know, you're still kind of struggling, but overall, you can function. insurance will say, Oh, you no longer meet diagnostic criteria for this disorder based on DSM five criteria. Thus, you are subclinical, and no longer need therapy, so we're not going to pay for it anymore. So all I was allowed to do was help people survived to just barely get their head above water, I could never help them, you know, do more with their life or you know, to flourish to thrive, whatever you want to call it, I wasn't, I literally wasn't allowed to do it. Because that would mean that they would have to pay for it out of pocket. And the population I worked with at the time, couldn't. So you know, and, you know, I've written about, you know, my transition from therapy to coaching before but long story short, I moved to a new state, and did, I was doing remote therapy. And the place I was working for, after a couple months, decided they, they didn't want to support remote positions anymore, which made no fucking sense. The way therapy licensure for psychology works in America is I can be anywhere in the world and do a remote session with you. But you as my patient have to physically be in the state unlicensed them during the time of the appointment. We don't have to live in that state. You have to have your two fucking feet on that piece of dirt during that 30 to 45 minute session. Okay. So I was licensed in West Virginia, but living in Kentucky. When I lost my job. I couldn't find another remote position out of West Virginia. I wasn't willing to move back. And in order to get licensed in Kentucky would have been four months or longer just because of how fucked up the license or process is. Okay? So it's like fuck, what do I do with my life? Right? Like I got all this training all this fucking student debt and also the ship. And throughout school, we talk mad shit about life coaches, okay, because to be a life coach, there's no qualification, right? The coaching field as a whole isn't regulated. That's just the reality. And we're like all we're psychologists were too good for that. So I had a lot of internalized stigma about calling myself a coach or going into coaching. That's just the reality. So I had removed that as an option for my life, even though I was inexorably locked. drawn toward that, right? Because coaching is about helping people flourish and like do more with themselves. But I was like, Nah, coaches bullshit. And then during like this, you know, because when they gave me my notice I had 30 days and three paychecks worth of runway to figure out the rest of my fucking life. Right? So I looked online, and I found this article by the American Psychological Association. And it was talking about life coaches, and just coaching in general, they're like, Look, it is an unregulated field. However, people with mental health training, can join this new discipline, and improve the overall quality of it. And I was like, Fuck, that makes so much sense. Like, why has nobody ever said that before. And this article is like 10 years old, or 13 years old. And one of the guys who was quoted in it, it said that he runs like a training like certification program for coaches. It's called the College of executive coaching. His name's Dr. Jeffrey Auerbach. And so I looked at it and it is an organization that is run primarily by psychologists for people with graduate degrees in mental health training I was like this fuck perfect. So I went through that training to help me make the mental shift from a pathology model to a model of you're helping relatively you know, air quotes normal people flourish. So it is a very strength based approach took it and then you know, opened up you know, my own coaching business and writing online also shit. So like, that is a very long answer to a short question of how I came to this, like it was a very slow evolution from one thing to the next to the next until where I'm at now, but it was it was never just like a light bulb. Like, oh, I'm just gonna fuckin help people, you know, self actualize? Yeah, happen that way. That's amazing, dude. It's amazing. It's It's funny how you thought that, like, your initial impression of psychology was like, Oh, that's bullshit, you know, and then, and then you fell in love with it. And then the same thing with coaching, you're like, That's bullshit. And then you fell in love with it, you know, and it became became you, you know, that's amazing when you really think about it. And it's funny how, how, when you look back on your life, like I could do the same thing. You know, I could look back on everything that I am now. When I was a kid, I would have been like, what the hell? How the hell did you end up like that? Right? One part of it is, you know, like, I just psychology because of the psychologists I came across. Right? Like, you know, I remember you know, being a therapy as a kid. And this this one, she was like, hydrous, but I remember she would cuss in session and like, I was a kid. I was like, Hey, is it cool podcast? And she was like, No, fuck this shit. This your cousin in front of me? And I was like, How the fuck you try to build trust shit with me? Like build rapport? like fuck all this? Like? Yeah. And I mean, you think about it, right? When you think of a psychologist, what is like the stereotype, right? Like this old motherfucker. With this fucking blazer with like elbow patches, a you know, sitting on the couch with the clipboard talking to you about your relationship with your mother and shit. And I was like, That's bullshit, right? And if for a couple of jobs I had, I did have to dress up, which is another issue like, I'm like, allergic to khakis and polos. Like I fuckin hate him. I just it is what it is. But eventually, once I you know, had doctor in front of my name, I could kind of dress how I want it. So, like, I would come to session. We know with my tattoos, like very visible I, I talked like this, right? Like, because I was like, Look, I have to be able to be me, I have to be able to be authentic in order to be effective. So when I was going through, you know, and I would look at psychologists like, y'all don't look like me, y'all don't talk like me. Like, I don't want to be like you. Right? You know, whatever psychologists call you know, how does it make you feel like did I remember I was working this teenager one day, cuz I mostly worked with like, angry teenagers and people you know, struggling with addiction and things. And so you know, people had issue with authority, like me. So this one kid he came in, he's like, I don't want it you know, he had like, punched a hole in the wall and also shed at school. And Scott, I want to talk about my feelings. I was like, good because I don't give a fuck about your feelings. What am I gonna get the fuck out? You feel? What are you going to do with your anger the next time it hits you? Like the next time you get pissed off? What is your specific buck and plan to control your shit? and move on? He was like, dude, nobody's ever asked me that. Please. Like, that's awesome. Like, I hate thinking about my emotions. Like, that's fine. I'm not going to try to force you to do it. Like I got, you got to take a different approach. Right? So when I found that I was allowed to put my own spin on things. The world opened up. Hmm. Is that something that you were like? That you were afraid you'd have to contend with it Like going into this profession, like when you were when you were training for it? Yeah, so I thankfully had a mentor or supervisor early on. And she, and she, you know, told us, you know, I can't do this or I can't do that until I get my degree and she was like, it's not about credentials. It's about attitude. And like, and she was full on it. Like she's full of attitude. Like, she walked in a room, everybody fucking knew it. But she was right. Like, she paved a very good career path for herself, based solely on her authenticity, and audacity to embrace it. So I had her my ear of like, No, just fucking be you, like, fuck them? Fuck them. If they don't like be you. What the fuck are they gonna say? And I ran into a couple other supervisors were like, No, no, like polos and khakis all day. This is how you do it very regimented. And then I looked at both of those, like, Who's happier? Right? Yeah. Who, who has a better life? Like Yeah, like, obviously, like, also like, who makes more money, but who is legitimately happier. And the person who was happier was the person who embraced her authenticity, and let people talk shit about them because of it, because she's like, fuck them. I'm over here making fucking bank traveling all over the world. They can sit there and their fucking 40 Hour Workweek bullshit and khakis and a polo? I don't give a fuck about them. I'm in Belize this week. Yeah, no, yeah, so I took a lot from her approach. That's awesome. Yeah, that's fascinating. It's also interesting how like, the figures in your life that got you where you are, you know, it's like really, we don't really always reflect on the role models that inspire us to be who we are, but like, even just having one person who has who embodies like a certain trait or many traits that you like aspire to. That's all you need is just to see one person do it like one person do it right like when I was a kid, it would be like let's say like a rapper or a singer or a ballplayer then as I became older, might be a writer or entrepreneur, but just seeing one person do it. Like for example, Ilan Musk, just knowing that someone can do all that stuff, it's just now I know I can do anything. And it's just just having one person show the way it's like okay, that's how I want to be and now I can just go do it laser beam straight to it. And that's another thing that I've really come into over the last year is you know, I know a lot of psychologists but I don't know a lot of entrepreneurs, right because I remember like when I was in grad school, did you know some people become psychologists to open up a private practice and do therapy? We got zero business training. Like I remember in grad school I was like hey, can we like partner with the College of Business to like, teach us just basic business shit and they just fucking didn't? Right? So when I started you know coaching or started just considering opening up my own thing and you know writing online and shit like I didn't personally know anybody who wrote online or who had their own business so thankfully you know through things like Twitter and some of the other like you know, online courses have become like rite of passage like that I've become a part of since over the last year it's been incredibly empowering right because you know so I'm agreement about this earlier. Anytime I start to question myself or my ability to execute on this plan you know this business I'm trying to build anytime so to question myself I can just hit up somebody be like Hey, man, you know I'm you know, let's let's talk about this thing or like, Hey, what are you doing right now? Like, you know, what, what projects are you working on? So either I can just get a pep talk or I could just be like, Look, I know this motherfucker. And they are proving this shit as possible. Right? So you know that whole thing of like, you're the average of the five people you spend most time with or whatever fuck it goes. It's that kind of shit. Right? So like, I surround myself, obviously, you know, before I surround myself, like, you know, with books, you know, on podcasts and shit. But it's, and that's, that's a really good surrogate until you can actually talk to a real human being and work through shit. Yeah, that's huge. In the beginning, that was huge. For me, I mean, podcasts motivational shit on YouTube, like, when you haven't heard anything, when you haven't learned anything about business or marketing or psychology, just like those, the all the pop stuff is so good, you know, and you can that that really got me going for the first few years, not having not having business friends, not having marketing friends. And even now, you know, I felt like before taking online courses, I felt like it was adding one person, one new friend, two new friends every year. Now I'm surrounded by people, you know, that's one of the that's one of the powers of being a citizen. Under the internet, you know, it's funny, I actually did some consulting for a site for therapists, therapy practices for a while I was like, trying to focus in on that market because I noticed that there was this like, there was this gap between, like what people are doing with online business and what therapists were doing. Like most practices are not doing, like any telehealth or like, not, not modernizing around telehealth, which would be like, it's just a glaringly obvious thing. It's like brick and mortar businesses not having an e commerce store. It's like so obvious, in a lot of cases, and people are just not doing it. And I know it's like, it's it's, uh, what I found was it's like, it's a it's a problem with the entire industry. And that's why people aren't trying to innovate around it. Yeah, so a couple things with that one, it depends on who you're working with, right? So if they're a private practice, and they're like a cash only clinic, right? telehealth isn't an issue. Because they can charge whatever they want for a session. If they're doing it if they're accepting insurance, because basically the way insurance works, I mean, there's a bunch of fucked up shit with it. But like insurance, one can just write you an IOU and say, Hey, we owe you a bunch of money, we'll pay you when we pay you, you can fuck off. But it's also if I charge $200 for an hour long session. And I say but I will accept insurance. Insurance says hey, we'll offer you 85 and that's it. Like even though your rate is 200 we will offer you 85 you can take it or you can not accept insurance. Yeah. And then with and that's for in person with telehealth and it may have changed over the last year. So let's get on to therapy more. But before telehealth, you would make like half as much or a fraction purely because it was telehealth because insurance is just like now we don't want to pay as much for that so that is a deciding factor for a lot of businesses with therapies like you know we want to offer it because it's way more convenient for our patients they can just you know roll out of bed and just turn on the fucking phone. But if the practitioner isn't making enough money to cover costs they can't offer it yeah i was like selling the system is super fucked up but that's one of the reasons but I mean you're right like with marketing I remember I worked at this prep practice for a little bit and because again we get no training and you know copywriting SEO Marketing I'll shit and my boss bought ad space. specifically those you know if you go to like a grocery store like you know the the carts or the buggies wherever you call them. There is this panel on the back of the car. So like if I'm walking towards you with my cart, you are looking at me. And you see like all the grocery and you see that little place where like a child can sit on that backplate there's this little piece of adspace that literally no one could fucking read at the distance that they would be like I would have to be right up in your face in your buggy to read this fucking you know, ad Yes, she bought that she spent 1000s of dollars on this one little fucking square. I'm like, Girl, you could have done that. It's like fuck Facebook ads. It's like, what the fuck? It's almost like a train. It's like a show, like a funny show. Yeah. Real and 1000s of houses like girl like yeah, like what? Yeah, I was like, you know, I'm not a marketer, but fuck, I know, this is a waste could have seen could have seen that. Anyone could have seen that. Yeah, it see. It's the it's an interesting thing. Man. I, I had a frustrating time trying to convince therapists and psychologists whether in practice that they could, that they could be doing more like, they just had no scope of like, like, dude, I've sold like stuff from China on websites and like I've sold, you know, my own marketing service, like, with a one click option, you know, and I just thought like, you guys have this amazing skill. This whole market is like, packed with people who have this amazing gift. And they just have no motivation or realization that they could be like, getting people to click a button and pay them money. And, and be in a call with them all day long. You know, it's, it's it's the paradigm, right? We call them schemas. But there's just this paradigm of this is the way it is. Right? So, you know, one of my last jobs I was salaried. Okay. So if I saw two people a day or 20 people a day, I got paid pretty much the same. There was like a very, very minimal bonus that wasn't worth the amount of people you had to see to get. But basically speaking I got paid the same no matter how many people I saw no matter how good I was at my job how long it took me to do my fucking notes nothing that breeds a toxic level of complacency. Yeah, like right. Yeah, I remember like, there was one time and we would do like monthly staff meeting so like with just a psychologist, there was one time for three months in a row we spent and we would have like three hours once a month we spent three meetings three months worth nine hours talking about the exact same shit because there was no consequence to figure it out or not figure it out. But we knew we had to fill up those three hours because if we didn't we wouldn't get three hours next month. And dude like I'm just like, it's out of my skin with it because I'm like, I can't fucking be here like, like we need to be more efficient. Well why Cory? There's no purpose in being more efficient. Yeah, that's it. And I'm like Look man, by the time my patient walks out the door my notes are fucking done. But there's some people like oh no, I'm working on notes all you know, all evening and all this because they're just fucking around at work all day. Yeah. The incentivization is not in the right place. No, and, and, and the other thing is, you know, psychologists inherently come from academia. Right? academia is incredibly predatory. Not all I'll make that caveat, but a fucking lot. And what I mean by that is, you can spend years on this research project and then sometimes you have to pay to submit it to to a journal to a book, whatever. And then they profit off of it. And you don't get paid a goddamn thing like the most you're gonna get is a free book. One free book right insane. So psychologists are conditioned to not think about monetizing their knowledge. Right? And that's the thing is you know, you know, I'm working on my own course right now that's part of why I joined rite of passage was to become a better storyteller and a better writer so that the content I create in these you know, modules is actually engaging right isn't just like a dry lecture because I taught college you know, in grad school, like I taught like 15 or 16 psychology classes, but it's just lecture right? But that's the thing that is that's the environment you're coming from you are not trained to have an entrepreneurial mindset to take the you know, like jack butcher talks about you know, build once sell twice you're not trained to think in those terms. You're trained to clock in clock out if you do research you do research just for the sake of doing it and and expect no compensation beyond maybe if you presented a conference they'll fly you out. That's it for most people yeah. Yeah, yeah, I found that was a really difficult hurdle to get over and like just from a marketing perspective you know, I've I've gone into lots of different industries and not every industry is is like driven by sales and making you know, the incentivization for like immediate sales but but it's really hard to get over those hurdles some some people some sectors they're just if if their bread doesn't isn't affected by how well they how much or how little they sell then just doesn't it just doesn't click for them that they could be doing more and and even even from a philanthropic perspective or just like you know, you have value to give wouldn't you want to give more value to more people more often you know, and I think some people just get tricked out of that one way or another that's also you know, even thinking about it in terms of like a value ladder right so you know i'm i'm working to build mine but you know, right now like my written content is free right? Like I try you know, and I write on you know, mindset habits mental wellness, you know, shit like that. So trying to you know, to make psychology accessible to more people and to to teach them things that they probably won't find elsewhere on on the internet. So that is free. Like I don't like I don't want that to be a barrier. Right? And I'm working like settle this course and some other things for like a medium price point. But like, you know, one on one coaching like that is a premium price tag because I only work with, you know, a handful of people at a time. And that's my that is my time. My time doesn't scale, right? But I know that that isn't a viable option for a lot of people. So I try really hard to focus on offering lower priced, high quality content for that same reason because it isn't a mutually exclusive thing. It isn't either free shit or super expensive. Like there's plenty of wiggle room in the middle. But like you said, like a lot of people don't. Don't think about it that way. Yeah. Yeah. And I think like, I think that, man, you're right, it has a lot to do with schema. But I think like even even myself, I've made fun into a lot of pitfalls of along the way of just like trying to monetize too early, and like, not giving a lot of free value up front, you know, and wanting to withhold because, well, when I was young, I was broke, you know, when I first got started in business, I had no money I needed that I needed to make bread to eat. And so I tried to monetize really early and wasn't giving any value up front. And, you know, that's a, it's the same thing with having clients. And in a private practice, like, if you don't advertise, if you don't put out any free content, not even a blog, you're only going to get one new client a month or two new clients tops a month, and that's just from referrals. But if you're constantly writing online giving value, then you're helping so many people and and the top level, your top level services will get purchased more more frequently, because you just have a funnel, a huge humongous funnel with tons of people, 1000 people 2000 reading your essays or whatever, every month, you know, whereas if you don't have a single essay, your impressions are zero or 10 per 10 people a month, if you have a sign outside, you know, whatever. So just offering that free value is so important, I'm realizing that now it's like, and it's it's the amount of time that it takes for you to be successful in any type of business is like it, it's determined by how much you give, how much impressions you're actually getting on your value. And that can't be beaten any other way. I remember, because I love reading books about the craft of writing, like I nerd out over it. And I hated English class, which is telling about the education system. But I digress. There's just one book I read, called, nobody wants to read your shit by Steven pressfield. And the whole concept is like look, nobody is waiting with bated breath for you to hit Publish. Nobody gives a single fuck about you or what you have to say, inherently. So it is your job to both be valuable. But more importantly, communicate that value to your audience. Right? So many of us sit on the value that we we hold for the world. Because we think all people are gonna know people. If I build it, they will come. Ain't nobody fucking coming. Okay, you got to tell them where the fuck the field is that you just built and why it's a good field to go to. Right like that. That is where marketing, copywriting, SEO like that's where that shit is supposed to. to be focused, right is supposed to be scammy Click baiting, she's supposed to be like, Look, here's why this piece that this piece of content I made is highly valuable for you specifically. Right? I remember when I first started you know my company and shit. I was like, you know, I have to have a physical you know, mailing address, so that people can send me fan mail, because it's clearly going to be so helpful. Like, I always feel just, you know, which which size box should I get, you know, probably gonna be send me packages. Motherfucker, I haven't gotten a same goddamn piece of fan mail. And it was delusional to think I would, right? It just it went away on that. Yeah. And to be like, Oh, you know, this, you know, three by three boxes, like you know this much, but then like the you know, the 12 by 12 like that's a couple 100 more but that'll fit all the packages like it's it's easy to laugh at it, but we all do it and and every business owner I've ever talked to tells me some dumb shit like that when I'm just like, No, dude. Yeah, but the thing is, man is like, consistency is the key. Right? And my biggest obstacle, the thing that I've been most focused on is how do I communicate the value that I am trying to create? Right? Because obviously, if I get somebody in, you know, one on one coaching, I know for a fact I can help them, like, period because I am damn good at what I do. Because I've spent over 15 years fucking with it, right? You spend 10 to 15 years doing anything, you'll be pretty good. But the issue is when I'm writing an article, who am I writing it to? And how does it help them? Okay, now I've created this really awesome article. How do I get it in front of people so that it can benefit them? otherwise you're just burying diamonds? Right? Like there's no it's awesome super pretty, super cool. Very valuable. But if nobody sees it, it doesn't fucking matter. Mm hmm. And I think especially like, you know, with a lot of professionals such as you know, mental health professionals, they're like, Oh, I have all this knowledge. It's like you have it you're sitting on it. Yeah, like, right well, but you know, liability like work. That's the thing, man, like a lot of psychologists are hyper paranoid about liability and like, oh, Well, you know, this isn't therapy advice or opinions are my own. Like, look, man, just put in your fucking Terms of Service and call it a fucking day like, hashtag not legal advice, but just move the fuck on man. Yeah, it feels I think it probably feels good to have that like to have some kind of discretionary to make those discretionary claims probably feels good. It's like some kind of ego stroke, you know, in a subconscious way. Just like hey, everything I say is really important. Yeah, but also not professional advice, please don't take it in your life, and then sue me. Right? Like, yeah, that's always like the caveat there like handcuffs, basically, you know? Yeah. And, and we do have a pretty strict ethics code. And that's part of it. But yeah, yeah. But at a certain point, I would hope that like everyone, the investment, the bigger the investment that you make, the more it can become a shackle, you know, in anything. And so it's important to like, to take audit, you know, that in your, in everyone, for everyone who's doing anything, you know, whatever you do for a living, or, like, it's not more important than who you really are. If it's, if it's false, if it's false in any way, then it's not more valuable than the truth, you know. And so I kind of walked away from helping or trying to consult therapists because there's like, man, there's so much, it's almost ironic that there's just so much like, cognitive bias holding them back from success. Like you guys are the psychologists. I'm just a marketing guy, you know, I'm out of here. Yeah, and nothing wrong, like therapy is incredibly valuable. Right? But you're right, the paradigm around the business of therapy is absolutely fucked. Yeah. And and that's, that's the thing, you know, the reason the whole reason I wanted to try to consult therapists which was, which was, this was like, a short time in my life, like 18 months or so was like a pet project was because they helped me so much, they helped me become a different person, you know, and, and so I thought, you know, let's get this in front of more people. And that's why I do the podcast. So I have psychologists on the podcast, because it helped me and I was so ignorant, I had no idea what therapy was. And, and I know that there's just the everyday man like me, who could have their life changed, and then become a world changer themselves, if they just like, were opened up to the idea that hey, it's cool. Like, there's tons of cool people who, who have therapists who, you know, lots of therapists are really cool people. So that's why it's just awareness. At least it's the least I could do. Well and man that's another reason why, you know, I originally started writing online is, you know, if you're trying to find information on like, you know, personal development or just psychology in general, there aren't very many places for you to go like very well mind, like very well, like they're really good company, there are a couple others that put out legitimate content. But beyond those, you have two options, right? You can go to an expert, and most of them are locked away in the ivory towers of academia, or, you know, private practice. Or you go to like the bullshit like snake oil gurus, right? Like, because the gurus are really good at talking and selling, but what they're selling is bullshit. The experts know what they're talking about, but don't know how to convey their knowledge in like, non jargony ways. So that was, my thing is like, I want to be the bridge, right? Like, I have all this expertise, but I talk like a normal motherfucker. Yeah. Right? Because you're right, like, so many people could benefit from things like this podcast, like, you know, a lot of, thankfully, more content coming out in the space, that's real. But if people like you don't put it out there. People can benefit from it. Yeah, yeah. It's it sucks that the system is broken. And then it's also it gives us our purpose, you know, to try to just like, spread awareness, right? The things that we find the truth, we're aiming for the truth and just like helping, helping clarify like what we're all doing here. I think, like, we all like, we're, it's like, we're living our parents lives, you know, like, the people are our parents and the communities that that we're running things when we were kids had things running a certain way. And, you know, obviously, this, the world is a complex, multi layered thing. But in essence, the previous generations have built this, this environment for us, and we're trying to clarify the mess of the evolutionary process along the way, because we know that it's only going to become more and more complex. So like, people say that like men, you know, now might not be The brand the dawning of the internet podcasts blogging but it's still important that we do this because we're the ones that are here right now living the life and the next generation is going to need to know how to navigate you know that and trust right like more and more people are losing trust in larger organizations and they're putting more of that trust into smaller creators that they feel a connection with right? That's the reason why like all these big companies are trying to focus on like creating a brand narrative to like try to build back that trust and this connection right? But people like you like they're like there's a face to you there's not a face to a major like most major companies there's a there's a people fucking love Elon Musk, and Tesla and SpaceX because of him because they could put a face to the company. Yeah, right. And so that's the thing that is I don't buy into podcasts are dead YouTube is dead also the shit because where do we go for entertainment or education? Dude, even my fucking doctor, it was most like 75 plus percent, thanks to YouTube, Wikipedia and Google. Right? And even like, Ali abdol he's a big YouTuber. He talked about like, he went to Cambridge medical school. He was like, Look though, most of the shit that we did was self taught. Like, we also learned a lot from the internet moreso than like our actual classes so like yeah, like you know, these are big names you know, Ivy League, you know, equivalent names. But the the education the quality, the education isn't that different? Because so much of the responsibility is on you as an individual to teach yourself. Yeah, that's how I know about things like very well mind. It's like, Fuck, what is this Schachter singer two factor theory, you know, model of, you know, whatever, let me Google it. And then there, you know, article came up, like, Oh, this is super fucking good information. Like, I'm going to remember this. Yeah. And someone's life purpose was like, I'm going to codify this shit. And I'm going to call it very well mind. And that's what they do. You know? Yeah. That's, that's insane. And like, man, if knowledge is knowledge, dude, I'm realizing that as well. I mean, there's like some, there was 216 year old kids in the rite of passage class, and I was reading their essays, and I had no idea. Like, I would not have known that there were 16 by reading their, their essays, and if I found their blog, I would have read it just like anybody else's blog. One of them was about childhood education. She's still in high school. And you couldn't tell it was a high schooler writing it. My girlfriend's she's trying to be she's studying to be a kindergarten teacher right now. And she was like, really interested in the whole writing thing. Like I wonder if I could write i'm not i'm not credential. I'm not even credential yet. You know. So there's a 16 year old girl writing about childhood education in read a passage right now. And if you read it, you wouldn't, you wouldn't think that it wasn't a credential teacher, you know. So it's like, the the cream rises to the top on the internet. And no matter who you are, like, the only identity that's holding you back from being successful on the internet is the one that you're creating in your own mind. Like the the person who you are right now I guarantee you there's someone who's worse off doing something amazing on the internet right now, you know? Yeah, another thing that Alia doll is talked about is I can't know if we talked about rite of passage, but being a guide, instead of a guru, right, which again, to me, the term guru makes me gag because people misuse it. But Alice whole thing is, don't wait until you're the expert or don't wait until you feel like an expert, you can be a couple steps ahead of somebody and teach them what you've learned so far. So not saying this is the end all be all so much as here's what I've learned along the way. And that approach, I think, is so much more approachable. To help people get over this, you know, imposter syndrome bullshit that stops so many people from from putting out the value they have to give to the world. They're just they're like, oh, but somebody else is gonna say it better than me or I'm not far enough along. Look, you're never gonna fucking feel like, you are ready. Right? Like I remember. When I was in grad school, we did this homeless outreach event. So psychology, med school, pharmacy, school, a bunch of other, you know, departments, we got together, like back of the church parking lot in December, so cold as fuck. And we did this outreach event for people experiencing homelessness. So like they could come get close food, get a medical checkup, get prescriptions if they needed it, whatever. And I'm like, What the fuck am I supposed to do? Like these motherfuckers don't need deep breathing. fuckin techniques like they're literally like they're fighting for their fucking lives living out on the street in midwinter. I don't have a goddamn thing to help these people with like yells shit is too real for me to be helpful. Yeah, I'm used to like helping people like, like you said like duty breathing for like mild panic attacks or some shit. And I walked up to two of my supervisors who between the two of them had like 50 years of therapy experience. I was like, hey, when is this feeling? Like, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing go away. And they looked at me they're like, we'll let you know. Meaning even they, experts at the top of their field felt fucking lost. Yeah, so from that moment on, I quit having imposter sin, because it's like, nobody knows what the fuck they're doing. And that's okay. So even though I don't know what the fuck I'm doing right now in therapy and coaching in this article, and just fucking video, whatever. I'll figure it out. Yep. Yep, exactly, dude. And that's like, that's something that I've learned from competing in Jiu Jitsu a lot. You know, I, I, I was always on stage. When I was little I played the piano when I was four years old. I start doing piano recitals, then I was in bands, rock bands, 15 1617, all the way up to 23 on stage every weekend. But I still get this like, performance anxiety, right? It's like stage fright. And I think that's just the feeling of confronting fear of any kind. It's like, you're never going to be ready. It's like you said, when I was there's a story I had when I was a kid. Very, very little. On the high diving board of the high school pool in the summertime. I'd never been on the high dive before. And the lifeguard was coming up to get me down because I didn't want to jump. And I realized that that moment that like, the embarrassment would be too great. Like to go down with the lifeguard everyone, the pool was packed with the town's kids. I jumped. Anyway, I jumped pencil jumped as she was coming to grab me. And I always refer to that story is like, the feeling of confronting your fear, like literally being pushed off a diving board. That feeling of like, Oh, fuck, I don't want it. I don't want this moment to happen. But it's it's like, those are the moments that we avoid that keep us from having the life that we want from the the saying, the thing you want is on the other side of the thing that you fear, you know, doing this podcast this morning, like I hadn't done a podcast in a few months. So it was like, oh, man, is it gonna go well, what is it, it's just talking, you and I have talked on zoom several times in the last month, you know, but there's still a little anxiety because it's the moment before the unknown. And jujitsu taught me that a lot man competing. There was like, I had never done anything on stage before. Like that was similar. Because it's just anytime you put yourself in a new environment, that challenges is going to feel like you know, life or death. and overcoming that feeling through competing over and over again, has been for sure one of the most transformative like things that I've ever done. I just competed last month and it was like a cage match for an amateur MMA fight. And that was the first time that I actually felt like I knew I was gonna feel afraid like in the shoot, but I was so conditioned to that feeling that I didn't let it ever become fear I just kept it like as excited energy all the way into the cage and that was the first time that I had I realized like holy fuck, I've actually conditioned myself enough to this feeling that I know how to talk myself through each step you know now I know when I'm in the shoot I'm like five minutes from now or 10 minutes from now on we're going to be back here and it's going to be over no matter what and having these little dialogue having these little dialogues with yourself training yourself to have these dialogues in the worst moments it's like that's that's a conditioning that you can only get from actually confronting fear like head on yeah that and just understanding like this is your body preparing itself to perform right now for some people that is debilitating right like they get paralyzed from from this preparation and other people really thrive on right dude like Like you said, like even this this podcast, right? Like said I talked for years. I love talking I love just you know, I just love talking. I paid like three times for this fucking podcast and this is a casual conversation, but my body's like, Hey, we got shit that's getting ready to happen. Like we got to prepare. Right? That's normal. It's part like this the issue people get fucked up. They're like, I shouldn't feel this way. You fucking should. That is your issue. The issue is it how you feel the issue is your your labeling of that, that feeling, right? You're saying this feeling is bad. The feeling isn't bad. The feeling is a fucking feeling, period, how you label like you said your internal, you know, monologue with it. That is what dictates whether you become paralyzed from it, or can you use it as fuel to perform better? period? Because, man, as soon as this podcast started, I didn't have to pay anymore. Yeah, because it's fucking go to I have crossed that threshold, there's no more preparing, right? Like my body kicks out like, Oh, we don't have to prepare anymore because it started. Right. So learning to lean into that instead of trying to avoid this, this, what you've labeled as a negative sensation. It isn't bad. It is your body preparing to do something. And that is perfectly normal. Yeah, there's something about living a life where you lean into that feeling. frequently. It Like It gives you some kind of like, piece that you know about your path. Like when you live a life where you continuously lean into the things that you're afraid of and do those things. Six months go by a year ago by a year goes by and you're actually proud of who you've become because you haven't been cowering from your fear subconsciously, the whole the whole time, you know? If it wasn't for if it wasn't for that I never would have started Jiu Jitsu. Anytime I start to question myself, and I just need like just a little bit of a nudge. I always go back to Theodore Roosevelt's the man of the arena speech never fails to kick my ass in gear. So if your listeners aren't familiar with that, I would definitely look it up. It's a super good like fairly short speech. That basically you know, just says, it isn't the critic who counts like it isn't the person who can point their finger and, and be an armchair quarterback and tell you what you should or shouldn't have done. It's the person who is in the arena is the person who puts themselves out there or their work out there. You know, to succeed to fail to, you know, to face criticism, whatever, that's the person who fucking matters, right? The person who's willing to, to face that fear to embrace uncertainty. Those are the people who actually matter. And the only people who have a chance to make something of themselves or to make the world a better place. Critics don't make the world better at fucking all. Anybody can sit there and talk shit about somebody. Right? You know, just you know, like, you know, you and me watching if we watch UFC, right? There's always that motherfucker with a KFC bucket who's like, all stand them up? Or if like, I wouldn't work on me, motherfucker. Have you been in the cage? Ever? Have you ever been on the mats? No. Then shut the fuck up. Yeah, there's always that person. So but those aren't the people you listen to? Because if you wouldn't want to be more like that person, why would you listen to any opinion they have about how you should live your life? Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. Like we all have that like inner, the inner critic. It's like a panel of judges like, I, whenever I'm pushing myself through something like this, like, should I compete or getting ready to compete, I think of like, there's a handful of figures in my life, who I think I think of my parents, I think of like, a couple of childhood friends. Maybe like a previous girlfriend, all who what they might say, if I lose, right? And those are the people who I have to contend with in my subconscious before I can say okay, I'll do it. And, and so the those those the voices of those critics, like none of those critics on my panel are actually experts. It's not Gordon Ryan on the panel, john Danaher, or Joe Rogan, none of the people I actually admire are on my inner are in my inner judge panel. It's just people from my childhood, who may have criticized me for doing something similar, that I have to make sure that I can contend with if I fail, you know, nipsey hussle had this really good quote, that was something along the lines of, you'll never be criticized by somebody doing more than you. You'll only be criticized by people doing less than you. Right? And that's my thing man like, is you're talking about you know, training and you know, Danaher, and also the people. So like I train at Chili's jet right? Like every city, MMA and jujitsu YouTube channel, whatever. Should we competes, chewy rolls with everybody, you know, Chile's a legit black I can't matter if he's been training 16 years or longer or has been a black belt that long, but he's fucking good. Okay, so you would think if you go and compete and then make a stupid mistake, or don't win or something, he would be very critical. He's fucking not he is the most supportive in Powering person I've seen on the mats, because he's doing more than everybody else. So he knows how hard it is to compete to put yourself out there. And I've watched people who had a dogshit performance because I don't compete anymore. I've watched people who just look fucking awful, right? But one, they still put themselves out there. And two, when I hear chewy talked about it, he doesn't say like, hey, you'd like dog shit out there, right? It's like, Hey, we have a couple things to work on. But you did well, because you put yourself out there, right? And so I really take that, that model of his behavior as examples, like, Look, anybody who's worth their salt isn't going to talk shit to you and tear you down. They may offer very specific, you know, constructive feedback, but they're not going to tell you not to pursue something, they're not going to tell you, you're going to fail. Because people who have succeeded, don't focus on failure like that. They don't assume you're going to fuck up and ship because they've seen that it's possible to succeed. Yeah, definitely. And they've they've failed so many times, it doesn't hurt as bad as it hurts the person who just fails once, once a month, once a year, twice a year. You know, the key is to keep going and that's that's what successful people in my experience focus on is like, okay, you fucked up, get back up. Because if you just keep getting back up, eventually something will happen. Right? Again, jujitsu, Chris powder. One of his he's like an odd guy. He was like, you know, with with jujitsu, like how do you get better? And he was like, Look, it's not about who's good. It's about who's left. Right, like, even think like me and you right? Like, we're both purple belts. I've been training about eight years, the number of people I've seen come through a gym. I can't count. Right? Because so many of them will come in train for a little bit and quit. Mm hmm. Yeah, I know. They say black they'll just wipe it and give up like all that cliche type shit, but it's fucking true. If you just keep going, no matter how many times you fail, or tap out or lose or whatever, eventually you make enough progress to cross a threshold into success. Yeah, man, it's it must be really infectious being around that gym. And they're just being they're just being there must be a higher standard of excellence in that gym. And one thing I've noticed in my journey is like the the black belts that are like, because anyone can be a black belt, you spend you just you spend 10 years in jujitsu, 12 years in jujitsu, you can be a black belt, but the black belts who are also excellent people, and that's those are the black belts who have that magnetic attraction to and they have a ton of students because people don't just want to be as good as them at jujitsu. They want to be like them as a guy or as a person, you know. And I can imagine that, that that jujitsu gym has that uh, that culture of excellence because of how chewy is on YouTube and and how he does compete and put put himself out there. He seems like he's, he's also a good guy to be around. Sometimes you don't always get that from a YouTube perspective, but he definitely seems like a genuine dude. Yeah, so that was my concern. Like before we moved here and I started training I was like, man, like he's super cool online, but like, What if he's a douche in real life? chewy is the same motherfucker man, like the same person you see on you know on video. He is that same guy. Like he doesn't put it on for the camera. Like he just turns the camera on. He's the same motherfucker. It's awesome. That's super cool, dude. Yeah, that's one of the that's one of the amazing things about jujitsu is like you, you get to learn from black belts. Who are are you no outstanding in jujitsu, but also in life. You know, it breeds good people. And the 10 year journey to black belt is like a, it's like an alchemy phase where you can become a better person in a lot of different categories of your life based on the virtues that you gain. From Jiu Jitsu. I've noticed that like, not to say white belts are worse people than black belts, but like, it's a vehicle for anyone to get better. You know, in life. I've definitely improved and as a person, I become refined, like a ghost sculpture. I'd become more defined from jujitsu, you know, and from, like, a mental health perspective. You know, I've, I've trained with people who were severely claustrophobic. So you get them in Mount and they just freak out. Because they can't move. But, but they stuck with it. And over, you know, a couple months. They weren't claustrophobic anymore. They weren't tapping just to position, right? Yeah, that could take you way. I mean, Again, I'm not trying to talk to you about therapy, right? But that something like that can take you way longer to achieve in that specific thing in therapy, purely because of the nature of therapy, right? therapy isn't immersive. Most, like occasionally there are some types of therapy where like, you're doing shit like in vivo, like in session with claustrophobia and things. But also most people aren't willing to deal with the liability of so they don't. So it's all like imaginary in jujitsu, like it's straight up like a motherfucker is on you. Yeah. But that's the beauty. Just as soon as you tap, we reset, that builds trust, that builds this sense of self efficacy, and you're like, Oh, I can control the situation. And that translates to so many other areas in life, right? I've also seen a couple of stories about like, VA is like for veterans, offering jujitsu classes through the VA to help veterans with PTSD and shit. Yeah, right. And because, you know, there's a lot of hypervigilance, there's a lot of you know anxiety and things like that in jujitsu for a lot of people is a very good outlet and in the true definition it therapeutic right so yes, you you build camaraderie you build skills that help your self esteem. You learn how to you know, do diaphragmatic breathing deep breathing to control you know, your your heart rate and shit. But there are so many other mental health benefits that again, it isn't just physical isn't just that you can check them out the fucker out in a couple seconds or you can do this you're gonna your handle your own it's, there's so many mental benefits that people don't talk about. Yeah. So like, as a psychologist, I'm a huge proponent of people, if you are physically capable of at least trying out jujitsu if for nothing else, your mental health? Absolutely. Yeah, it's a you're uniquely positioned to describe jujitsu the benefits that can in a, in a unique way. That's exactly I think the perspective that that people that people need to hear that's like, all my advocacy for jujitsu is because I came to jujitsu as a depressed alone 26 year old dude. And now my entire life has changed. And I don't know that I wouldn't have killed myself if it wasn't for jujitsu, you know. And so, you know, a lot of what I do is just like a non professional advocacy of the things that have changed my my, my mind, my mental paradigm, my spirit, you know, who I am my identity, my existential identity, and my physical health, you know, because I've also been in car accidents and without jujitsu, I don't know that my spine would move, you know, from from from the back, that halfway down, I don't know if my body would be the same without jujitsu. So this, this thing, this, like, I call it, like a simulator, like, it's like a, it's a life simulator. Like you said, you get stuck on your mouth, you can learn to deal with your anxiety, you know, I've had, I've had the amount smothering anxiety, like I want to tap, and every single time I'm like, if I don't tap to this, that means I will never have to tap them out. You know. And so it's always a challenge that you can use to reshape your reshape your paradigm, you know, in every way even being merciful when you're, when you're dominating somebody. That and the conversations you have on the mat after class are some of the deepest you'll have in your life. Like, if you go to a good gym, like and you just hang out and you're kind of a gym rat. And he's just you know, after everybody's done exhausted, everybody's fuckin sweat puddles everywhere, if you just hang out, like there's no bullshit at that point, because people are too tired to keep up a facade like that is when you have real conversations with real people. I love it. Yeah, people from all walks of life. I think the biggest obstacle is people think that you have to be in a certain physical condition to get started. And that's just not true. You can be anybody anybody there's 12 year old kids in the gym there's 6070 year old people in the gym yeah and the other great thing with that too is you know you'll have because Aren't you know, we all have a story but like when I started I went against this like 16 year old kid and I had 100 pounds on and easy I was like, Okay, I understand Jiu Jitsu is about leverage else's bullshit but like surely to God, I can just hold this motherfucker down. Like, gravity is on my side. Motherfucker taught me so many times in five minute ran out last count. Yeah, right. And it's just like, and even now, right like the mats. don't care how educated You are or what your net worth is or if you're a felon like none of that matters right like I you know I on a regular basis train with people who make fucking bank who are in recovery from heroin who you know are super you know important or this or that or fucking nobody when it comes to like the social ladder right and we all have an equal chance of fucking each other up based purely on how much we train yeah how well we train it's such a good equalizer yeah it's amazing dude. It really is amazing I couldn't have put it couldn't have put it better myself like it's it's the it's such an amazing experience because it's literally the people from all all of all across your tribe. wherever you live, it's a perfect Section A perfect cross section of the entire society and and you get to just fuckin wrestle him down you know, it's amazing and it's like it's a good way to bypass all of the like anxiety like all but they're more important than me fucking there's still a person but it's also you know, even like, you know me and you like we can like all do jujitsu, fuck yeah. Right. Like, hey, you want to boom a podcast? Fuck Yeah. Right? Like, it's just like, instantly you have a connection. And it doesn't matter if you agree on nothing else, politically, religiously, philosophically doesn't matter. Because you have that connection. And that is enough of a connection to bridge virtually any gap. Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing to like one thing I didn't realize when I was a white belt was how many significant friendships I would make through jujitsu with people who had no other relation to me. And five years later, looking back the most significant people in my life you know, if I post something on Facebook or Instagram or something happens, the people who care the most are the people I met through jujitsu, you know, the people from all gyms, they're the happiest for me, because there was just such a unique genuine bond, you know? And like anytime you travel, you have instant access to either places to train or people if you want to, like crash on the couch or something like I've heard people traveling all over the country and just crashing on couches, purely for just like teammates are like, Hey, guys, I'm going to be in Chicago next month. Where should I train? And then they get a bunch of recommendation people like Hey, man, I'll you know, I'll show you around. It's insane. You don't get that with any other sport that I've seen. Maybe wrestling. I don't know. I don't know much about wrestling. But like you don't get them a football or basketball like you can't just go train with like some superstar in any other sport. Like, when I went to New York City, we just took like a you know, like a mini trip. I went to Marcella Garcia's gym and got to hang out with the fucking goat. Like this insane. I just like, hey, Marcel is like, fucking insane. You don't get that with any others any day. Yeah, it'd be like LeBron James having an open basketball gym. Yeah, I'd be like, Hey, man, next time you're in, you know, we'll play horse. Yeah. any day of the week just show up like, like last last night, I watched Gordon Ryan's exhibition match your who's number one? And he said, Yeah, we're training down in Austin, just come by, he said the name of the gym. And I thought he just said that on flow grappling. And he meant it, he wouldn't have said it. If he didn't mean anyone can show up tomorrow, and train with john and Gordon. And for whatever the mat fee is, doesn't matter. Since they, I really appreciate this dude, the the one thing we'll have to talk about the next time is just more about like your process. I'd love to learn more about like, you know, how you actually help orient someone what the actual exercises are. I know, you'd have to give away a lot more. And we'll have to come back together in the future and talk more about this because it's just like, so many things we could talk about Still, we could just keep going on and on. Yeah, no, man, I'm down. Just hit me up. I'm down to come back home. Super fun. Everybody. Please read Korea's blog every essay is, is very intentional and valuable. He's had, he's put a lot of effort into giving free value. He's also got a newsletter. With several editions, you can go and check out and follow him on Twitter. He's a active user on Twitter. So if you have any questions for him, you want to learn more about him. Those are the three best places. He's Corey Wilkes sidey on Twitter and Cory Wilkes society.com. Anything else? Any last minute if you have, if you have one thing that you could say to the listeners, Cory about how they can make the most out of life? What would it be? Get hyper clear on what your core value is right? Is it freedom? Is it authenticity? Is it service to others something. And once you have clarity on your core value, design everything else in your life and business around that core value. You can't not achieve fulfillment at that point. Amen. Amen, brother. I appreciate it. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Corey Wilkes. Thanks everybody. You weren't tired last night, it's been just one dream. You're one node in a network the network is interwoven with countless other networks. And it can cause the heroes of barrows life together, power. Join us, join us. We are gonna, we're gonna level up your spirit. Together we will find more power in time.